spray foam with metal shavings

This feature has been temporarily disabled during the beta site preview. Our GC is requesting an alternate approach based on cost savings that minimizes exterior insulation to 1" and filling the stud bays with spray foam insulation. Because of the magnitude and multiple uses of the facility, installation proved complicated. Features and Benefits Product FAQ Helpful Tips I will take a picture tonight and upload it to make it easier to visualize as the area is the bulk of this area is on a sidewall so just the upper half of the wall is studded There a thin layer insulation between the sill plate and concrete. Spray foam is a chemical product that is created by two materials, isocyanates, and polyol resin, that will react when mixed with each other to expand out to about 30 to 60 times its liquid volume after it is sprayed and applied to the area in the indoor building. 1994-2023 Modern Trade Communications Inc. No data on this website may be downloaded or copied for use on other websites or in other publications without prior written consent from this sites webmaster. The Spray Polyurethane Foam Alliance (SPFA) and Metal Construction Association (MCA) technical bulletin, Spray Polyurethane Foam Insulation on Interior Surfaces of Metal Panels, provides guidance based on research conducted on the installation of SPF onto metal panels and is accessible via download at www.sprayfoam.org/technical/spfa-technical-documents. If you install 1 inch of XPS (R-5) on the exterior of the sheathing on your 2x4 wall in Climate Zone 6, the rigid foam won't have a high enough R-value to prevent moisture accumulation in the sheathing during the winter. The first issue to clarify: Are you really operating a "sizable humidifier"? Spray foam installers missed some of the air leakage sites. If you have any questions, please contact us anytime. Its a good cost-effective solution to any metal roof. Open cell foam is a semi-rigid .5 pound per cubic foot and is low density. How much rigid foam ends up in the dumpster? Note that not all spray polyurethane foams require thermal or ignition barriers. Fifteen mils of Lapolla FIRE-LOK Thermal Barrier was also applied. Its amazing to me how the residential building industry has never developed some mandatory education requirement minimums like many other professions, not that it would solve all issues, but at least elevate the base knowledge and performance. John, Continuous exterior insulation seems like an inescapable necessity. Can't say I disagree While 1/2-inch gypsum in the walls and ceilings, or 3/4-inch plywood subfloor, prescriptively meets this requirement, other applications of foam may require application of an approved thermal barrier covering or coating. Huffing: putting the substance in a cloth and pressing to the mouth; Bagging: pouring the contents into a bag and inhaling through the bag opening I'm assuming that this gap will eliminate the penalty due to cutting off thermal bridging and the closed cell would maintain its substantially higher r-value in this case? Two coats of coating go down. Does Open-Cell Spray Foam Really Rot Roofs? Model # 99108824. I can't say I disagree with that. Charlie and Malcolm, Get free shipping on qualified Spray Foam Insulation products or Buy Online Pick Up in Store today in the Building Materials Department. ", https://up.codes/viewer/wyoming/irc-2015/chapter/7/wall-covering#R702.7.1, "When Sunshine Drives Moisture Into Walls.". Spray foam is a combination of two materials, a polyiso and a resin that get pumped from 55-gallon containers, through a hose that runs up the side of your building. Therefore, insulators can spray 2" of closed-cell polyurethane foam in a 2" X 4" wall, or 4" of open-cell SPF in a 2" X 6" wall, install HY-Fi, and still achieve R-21 or higher. The thermal bridging performace hit isn't quite as large as with walls, but it's still real enough. I suspect your basement temp is somewhere in-between 65F & 85F, but you'll have to tell us what it is for the RH number to have any relevance. Let the foam set up until it's stiff and carve off any excess around the. They will check for rusted and deteriorated panels, check the securement of panels (screws) and flashings. See the costs. The facility includes a two-hour rated fire wall with IBC fire wall code certification, safely separating the commercial and living spaces. Your description is confusing, and there is a lot we don't know. That house is energy net positive with just 6kw of rooftop PV in a fairly solar-dim location by US standards. Thanks for the response. Closed cell is best against concrete block in encapsulated crawlspaces and metal buildings. I know that is not definitive but at least supportive. A primer may be involved. Like many materials found in a home or building, spray foam can ignite and burn if exposed to a sufficient heat source. The vapor retardency of the close cell foam keeps moisture from moving into and out of the roof deck at a high rate, and the R-value of the closed cell layer keeps the overnight cool edge of the open cell foam layer warm enough to take on much moisture. The area is actually virtually free of obvious gaps with the exception of one water pipe to an exterior faucet (the penetration points in the exterior sheathing and top plate have been sealed). The biggest doubts I have personally are related to cost and ability to find someone able and willing to do the work. I also think the analysis for a ceiling gets tricky depending on the structure used for framing--TJI beams (with thin OSB chords), 2X dimensional lumber, or roof trusses (with open spaces between chords which could be filled by insulation to mitigate thermal bridging). Response to User-6881247 Installation of Protective Coatings and Coverings: SPF insulation must be separated from the interior space using a qualified 15-minute thermal barrier to provide code-compliant fire protection. Thus any modification of the exterior part of the wall (rigid foam board, etc) seems like a waste. Take pictures of metal shavings in transmission fluid. (GBA readers who are unfamiliar with this discussion might want to read High Humidity in Unvented Conditioned Attics.). UK Level 6 construction is all about sustainability, and it's fair to say that fiberboard & cellulose are far more sustainable than foam insulation. That's an unfortunate incentive for thinner walls. In a 24 wall, the installer will usually stop at a maximum depth of about 3 inches instead of 3.5 inches, leaving the typical bumpy surface of cured foam. 2023 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved. Icynene open cell foam installed in attic assemblies is not risky. The most common is silicone. GREAT STUFF Pestblock Insulating Foam Sealant with Quick Stop Straw Technology helps protect your home from pests and insects. The shop and warehouse comprise an all-metal structure. I'm remodelling a log cabin and have a 1/2" to 1" gap (probably averaging something inbetween those two numbers) between the inside framed 2x4 wall and the interior (flat, D-log) wall. If we need to install two inches of foam versus installing four inches of foam, thatll affect the cost. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google, Implementing Energy-Saving Advice Isnt Always Easy, High Humidity in Unvented Conditioned Attics, Combining Exterior Rigid Foam With Fluffy Insulation, https://weatherspark.com/averages/28767/Norwich-England-United-Kingdom, "Calculating the Minimum Thickness of Rigid Foam Sheathing. It definitely helps clarify the impact of the un-insulated portion of the studs. I'm not sure if anyone has done the environmental calculations on that material finding its way into a landfill forever. Many contractors claim spray foam is the best insulation option for structures built of metal. April 30, 2022. In 113 days. User 6997503, Non-Aerosol Spray, Rat Bait Station 2 Pack - Rodent Bait Station with Key Eliminates Rats Fast. The best way to ensure best practices are followed is to utilize a professional, experienced SPF contractor. $1899 - $12999 FREE delivery Loctite Tite Foam Big Gaps White Insulating Foam Sealant, 12 oz, 1, Can 5,574 $10989 - $12609 Spray Polyurethane Foam. With SPF, we could do things size and height-wise that wouldnt be possible with an alternative insulation.. Low GWP 210 Insulation Foam Kit 484 oz Spray Gun Indoor/Outdoor Spray Foam Insulation. Thermal bridging would bring the value down but it would also save me a pretty penny if I don't have to run dehumidifiers or AC units constantly as the closed cell would be a better vapor barrier being against the sheathing, right? Contractors should have a supply of spare parts in each rig to minimize downtime should equipment failure occur during installation. The table in my article accounts for the thermal bridging through the studs. With ceilings typical framing fractions are on the order of 7% rather than 16" o.c. Its more cost-effective to leave the areas that are in good condition. The complete source for building, designing, and remodeling green homes. In most of the stud cavities the Membrain seems to do its job and after the outside humidity drops the condensation evaporates. Hence footing a large bill! (3/8")/16 = 0.0234. To calculate the whole-wall R-value of a wall, we have to divide the wall into areas. In limited access attics, an ignition barrier coating over the foam may also be required. Share 6.4K views 5 years ago In order for the walls of a new home to be able to accept paneling or sheet rock after a spray foam insulation the foam has to be shaved even with the studs. Spray foam is a chemical product created by two materials, isocyanate and polyol resin, which react when mixed with each other and expand up to 30-60 times its liquid volume after it is sprayed in place. Toll Free: 877-684-7262 Int'l: 860-844-0101 My Account. If you want to install spray foam in a stud wall, and price is no object, then it would seem to make sense to specify closed-cell spray foam, right? GREAT STUFF PRO. This regulates the temperature by allowing minimal heat loss. I can't say I want to tear off clapboard to see if there is some area deficient of Tyvek so I was hoping I could just create a better vapor barrier using closed cell spray foam. Houlden recently built a second facility from which to operate its business. Selection of Appropriate SPF Products: A wide range of SPF products are available in various densities, each exhibiting different performance characteristics such as moisture resistance, R-value, and structural properties. SPFAs guide for installers on surface evaluation for insulation applications (AY-112 Spray Polyurethane Foam for Residential Building Envelope Insulation and Air Seal) is a free download on the Technical page of www.sprayfoam.org. TECHNIQUE TIPS. Response to Steve Kreisher Foam insulation should be considered combustible and handled accordingly. You may have to show your mechanic if the particles keep coming after the first fix. It can be designed out. My question was in relation to this article specifically, which says that the whole wall r-value of closed cell is greatly reduced due to the thermal bridging penalty when not spraying to the face of the stud vs spraying to the face with open cell, thus making the r-value differential so small that it's worth considering if its worth the extra cost. Climate Pledge Friendly uses sustainability certifications to highlight products that support our commitment to help preserve the natural world. Recoated 30 year old foam with new silicone, owner received a 10 year warranty. Nebraska, because of the low number of taxpayers hits the property tax very hard. We noticed that you may have an Ad Blocker turned on. SPF Applications for Interior Metal Building Assemblies. 121 Commerce Dr. With closed-cell spray foam, the exposed sides of the studs (the portions that extend inwards beyond the 3 inches of foam) make the thermal bridging penalty worse. Response to Charlie and Malcolm (Comments #9 and #10) It's also suitable for narrow and deep joints without additional moistening. Consideration must be made to protect against contact with liquid and airborne chemicals developed during and shortly after application. Life Long Lasting Vapor/Air Seal. Can be used on most common building materials such as wood, concrete, stone, plaster, metal, PVC, polystyrene, etc. Nicolaas, So much so that I considered 12" walls and then backed off because of the tax increase that would penalize the energy savings. And thats it! We don't have an ultra cold climate. Despite these efforts I get condensation in the summer behind the Membrain. School System, Indiana, 112,000 . Metal shavings in oil are caused by friction of the engine's components. Attic Ladders Foldable Fakro Attic Ladders White My Texas House Area Rugs Texture Indoor Carpet Tile Mid-Century Gray Ceramic Tile Shop Large Format Bronze Decorative Accents Shop Unfinished Wood Kitchen Storage & Organization Shop Ruvati 31 in Farmhouse Kitchen Sinks Loosen and wash the metal in the transmission filter. Urethane board stock was installed under the floors throughout. Open-Cell Spray Foam and Damp Roof Sheathing, Its OK to Skimp On Insulation, Icynene Says, Upgrading Five Common Building Assemblies, Webinar: Choosing Materials and Products for a Green Home. The owners, Brad and Shirley Houlden, oversaw both the design and build, taking the best of other high-performance structures and applying those concepts. Discover more about the small businesses partnering with Amazon and Amazons commitment to empowering them. Getting back to the closed cell foam. An RH of 45% is a meaningless number without the associated temperature to which the humidity is relative. Bed Bug & Mite Killer Spray by Premo Guard 24 oz Fast Acting Bed Bug Treatment Stain & Scent Free Child & Pet Safe Best Extended Protection Natural & Non Toxic Formula, Loraffe Under Hood Animal Repeller Rodent Repellent Ultrasonic Rat Deterrent LED Strobe Lights Keep Mice Away from Car Pest Control for 12V 24V Automobile Truck RV, Rodent Defense Vehicle Protection, EcoClear Products 774324-6D, RatX All-Natural Non-Toxic Rat and Mouse Attractant, 4 oz. Then a contractor will install the second coat of the coating and before it fully cures, theyll embed granules into it. FROTH-PAK. Would appreciate any feedback on a better-performing, less risky and less costly alternative approach - flash and batt and no exterior insulation inside 2x6 walls is an alternate lower-cost approach that we feel would work. Is anyone aware of it's efficacy or know a similar solution to prevent heat conduction through the stud ? It sounds like taxes are based on the exerior footprint of the house. There is no evidence of water sneaking in from abovethe rim joist area is dry and I have checked ceilings on the first floor underneath the master bathroom to make sure nothing is coming down. The home was built in 2001 and has Tyvek housewrap and clapboard siding. T-studs are a relatively new development. Squirt a little expanding foam around a loose shower arm to make solid as a rock. And with its long list of attributes, that's no wonder. Greg Palya is the Digital Content Manager of West Roofing Systems, Inc. Steve, In Nebraska the county assessor comes unto the property with a tape measure and records the outside dimensions of the footprint, 1x4 corner board trim lines to the other 1x4 trim board to record the footprint in feet/inches. https://up.codes/viewer/wyoming/irc-2015/chapter/11/re-energy-efficiency#N1102.1.2, Even if you installed 3.25" of closed cell foam in the cavities (the most you could practically apply as cavity fill) and R5 on the exterior it would not meet the same performance standard, even though it would meet the letter (R20 + R5.). Foam & Sealant Products from Wildlife Control Supplies (Page 1 of 2) Foam & Sealant Products from Wildlife Control Supplies . Flush skylights will have to be covered over with metal or plywood. The basic idea (as you correctly guessed) is to allow spray foam to fill the gap, thereby reducing thermal bridging through the studs. Spray foam has an R-value of 6.5 per inch of thickness, which is the best of any roofing insulation out there. And yes, while Norwich is a pretty temperate climate- roughly a US Marine 4C climate though cooler in summer- it would have a 12 month heating season for a code-min house: https://weatherspark.com/averages/28767/Norwich-England-United-Kingdom . Remember, too, that drywall adds bracing, even though the bracing contribution of drywall is often ignored by engineers. (@ Rick Wertheim) You need fuel, a washing brush, a spray can, and a washing pan or . One minor critique That neighbor has indicated on numerous occasions that he is envious of the performance of our facility, which makes us proud, says Brad. It can usually be designed out. You're right that a 1/2-inch air space has R-value. - Every additional inch of wall depth adds to my much too high NJ property taxes. The modified wall that your GC is recommending is 1. not 'green' 2. barely meets code (insulation) 3. violates the rule of thumb for minimum thickness of exterior rigid foam for a 2x4 and 4. unnecessarily expensive- especially given the lackluster performance of such a wall. Pros: 1 thick spray foam has an initial R-value of 7.2 per inch and R-value of 12 at 2 thick. Snow Joe ASHJ201 4.8-Gallon 4-Amp Ash Vacuum w/Dual Filtration System, Metal Canister, Reusable Dust Cartridge. Its continuous membrane, which can adhere to virtually any building or structure, including awkward shapes such as curves and voids, contains the most efficient insulating properties used in modern industry. Agricultural facilities comprise a large portion of its projects, as spray foam is ideal for many. We, as builders, berate the Real Estate industry for "doing nothing" to collect commissions, or make fun of "sleazy" used car salesmen, and yet we seem to do the same or worst. While most people think closed cell is the answer for insulating steel buildings with spray foam, the truth of that is really whether the walls are exposed or not. Are there any other similar techniques ? Extrapolating from this, it would seem logical that breaking the thermal bridge at the exterior (or even filling the stud cavity to the face with closed cell for example) would raise the whole wall r-value more than just the r-value of the foam because it eliminates/reduces the thermal bridge. In your case, you'll be adding 1/2 inch layer of continuous foam. That's 700% (7x) as much polymer, for a paltry net performance gain on the order of 10%. The workshop and warehouse parts of the building comprise the larger portion of the insulation installation at 17,200 square feet. Great info Dana and Martin. 1. Houlden Contracting utilized Lapolla FOAM-LOK 2000 4G closed-cell spray foam insulation, manufactured by Houston-based Icynene-Lapolla. This is part of why I personally like the idea of flash-and-batt more. Local practices for measuring the area of a house vary from town to town, and it may be worth bringing the topic up with your local tax assessor if your house has thick walls. To continue this discussion: If you add a continuous layer of R-5 insulation on the interior side of the assembly that would otherwise have a whole-wall R-value of R-12.5, you end up with a new whole-wall R-value of R-17.5. I dont have a general range because there are so many different variables. The SPFAs ISO-compliant Professional Certification Program (PCP) is available to all professionals involved in SPF installation and allows the contractor to demonstrate knowledge, skills and abilities. Open Cell spray foam has an R-value of about 3.5 per inch of thickness. These are things that more resonate with me personally rather than a general argument as to its superiority, so I don't expect it to convince anyone. Open-cell spray foam has an R-value of about R-3.7 per inch, while closed-cell spray foam has an R-value that may be as high as R-6.5 per inch. Christopher, If the waterproofing on the foundation isn't up to snuff there could be a lot of moisture coming in by vapor diffusion. It will bond to many surfaces, including wood, rigid foam, masonry, metal and drywall, and can be applied above or below grade. You can also enter "Bonfiglioli" into the GBA search box to find links to several Q&A threads on GBA discussing the Bonfiglioli approach. Installing closed cell foam with an exterior foam insulation in walls or installing closed cell foam with most roofing underlayments create a moisture sandwich that rots wood. The outer layers are made of paper, and the core is made of Gypsum, which is usually mixed with fiber. 2 lb. Gypsum is a mineral composed of calcium sulfate dihydrate. Top subscription boxes right to your door, 1996-2023, Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates. These include spray zone containment, adequate ventilation during installation, safety training (for all involved in installation), use of personal protective equipment (PPE), such as fullbody suit and headsock covering skin, along with nitrile gloves and eye protection for full installation duration as well as a medical surveillance program for field crews. 1-800-356-5748 Air & Safety You must be a magazine subscriber to access this feature. construction details. At the end of the article, there are three case studies of metal roofs weve done. To address this, continuous air barriers, vapor retarders and insulation are needed. In comparison, a neighboring workshop structure, which is less than 8,000 square feet and insulated with fiberglass, experiences energy bills in excess of $250 per month. I would stick with cellulose/ fiberglass between studs, and 2 inches of EPS or polysio on the exterior. For more information on the Bongfiglioli approach, see "Breaking the Thermal Bridge". This is especially important regarding roof insulation because the roof is typically the primary location for heat transference in a metal building. May 2023 in Bucharest. FROTH-PAK. 3. My understanding from the article is that the reason why the whole wall r-value of open vs closed is so close is due largely to the increased thermal bridging via the 1/2 of stud that remains "exposed" on the interior (and in smaller part, to the 1/2" less of insulation). The residential portion includes a steel exterior skin but incorporates wood frame construction on the interior as a cost-effective solution. This approach has been successful in a number of temperate and cool climate European high-performance houses, including this UK Level 6 standard house in Norwich, Norfolk England: http://www.walesonline.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/gallery/grand-designs-norfolk-eco-home-7903432. So humidity paranoid I am that I was evening planning to do double stud walls to assure an intact vapor barrier. We detail to seal at stud/floor/header, etc. (Although the article I linked to discusses rigid insulation and fluffy insulation, the R-value ratios in that article also apply to the minimum thickness of a layer of closed-cell spray foam.). Gaps and Cracks 24 oz Spray Gun Indoor/Outdoor Spray Foam Insulation. During installation, equipment should be set to the manufacturer-recommended temperatures and pressures to produce ideal SPF. If you're only getting condensation on high dew-point days it's almost certainly due to air leakage at the exterior sheathing layer. Or do you have an automatic sprinkler system that soaks your siding? Where the side and rear stud walls meet there is a narrow gap in the corner where the corners of the studs meetso there is an uninsulated space in there at the corner of the house. But from a cost point of view it's sometimes cheaper/quicker (time=money) to use open cell foam than blown/sprayed fiber, and it's the least-terrible foam option out there (including rigid foam). Response to Nicolaas Wilkens I guess the "more" I was referring to was versus just using ccSPF. Or is the MemBrain the interior finish material? Airborne chemicals disappear a few hours after spraying, so re-occupancy guidelines from the manufacturer must be followed. Violators will be prosecuted. (As of right now today the local dew points have moderated to about 60-65F in eastern MA.) Even if it were entirely based on the building footprint, increasing the depth of the walls by an inch would for the average house would equate to about 12 sq.

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