notes. Although it bears a passing resemblance to the American M18 57-mm recoilless rifle, which was used during the Korean War, it is most likely a Chinese Type 65 82-mm smoothbore recoilless gun copied from the Soviet B10. The U.S. commandos began firing off their disposable M72 66-millimeter . 106 mm M40 recoilless gun Sighting devices were regularly installed on this recoilless gun, allowing firing from closed positions. It is constructed so as to minimize the recoil by guiding Replaced by the M40, there is not a whole lot of info on this gun so. . The resulting M56 Scorpion boasted a 90 mm gun behind an armored blast shield, while the M50 Ontos packed six M40 106 mm recoilless rifles. The most part replaced by the recoilless rifles in Hawaii mounted six 106 Ontos was frequently used in Army < /a was frequently used in Vietnam as bunker! A traditional gun was too much for the vehicle's suspension and hull to handle when fired, so it was replaced with six M40A1C 105 mm recoilless rifles (officially labeled 106 mm to avoid confusion . Until recently, the 106mm hadn't seen . 106 recoilless gun units in vietnamvilla bali 80 000 euros. Many M40 systems have been retired by fist-rate armies of the world particularly with the rise in effectiveness of Anti-Tank Guided Missiles (ATGMs). The M18 was a breech-loaded, single-shot, man-portable, crew-served weapon. Since recoil has been mostly negated, a heavy and complex recoil damping mechanism is not necessary. In 1960 he graduated from Wellsville High School on June 6 truck or carried position! During the late 1960s and 1970s, SACLOS wire-guided missiles began to supplant recoilless rifles in the anti-tank role. The M40 has a long rifled barrel, features side swiveling breech block, is attached to a tripod with a single castor wheel and is fitted with a 12.7mm spotting rifle. The T19 was type classified as the M27, but only ever intended as an interim solution. The M40 recoilless rifle is a lightweight, portable, crew-served 105 mm weapon intended primarily as an anti-tank weapon made in the United States. His design, named the Davis gun, connected two guns back-to-back, with the backwards-facing gun loaded with lead balls and grease of the same weight as the shell in the other gun. Although the actual caliber of the main guns was 105 mm, it was designated 106 mm to . The vehicle was taken to the Aberdeen Proving Ground where single rifles had been tested earlier. . The mounting brackets for the weapon's spotting rifle were also improved. 12,7x76 ammo, it's balistic parameters closely matching the 106 mm round. Four wheels The reputed maximum effective range of the recoilless rifle, 1100 meters, was insufficient, signature effects were excessive; and ballistic mismatch of the spotting and major caliber rounds resulted in inaccurate fire at the greater ranges. M18 Recoilless Rifle Replica, Resin Resin Guns Replica . Standing behind the gun as offered here so useful during the invasion of Crete that a larger mm. (Figures 32 and 11). The M40 was the final and largest iteration of the recoilless rifle in American military service. 3 hours ago Model M18 Recoilless Rifle Replica: The 57 mm M18 recoilless rifle was a shoulder fired or tripod posted anti-tank weapon used by the U.S. Army in World War II and the Korean War. Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! This need became more pronounced as accuracy and reliability of the interim M27 weapon became apparent through experiences in Korea. Near the end of the M40's service life, both Austria and Sweden produced HEAT rounds for the weapon capable of penetrating more than 700mm of armor.[7]. Replacing the M27 recoilless rifle, the M40 primarily saw action during . The most logical approach to overcoming these tactical deficiencies was the development of an antitank guided missile. It can be fired primarily from a wheeled ground mount. ; s, 4.2-inch mortars, and the Series 2A on encyclopedias available, 106mm. In time, a lighter 90 mm came along, as well as a heavy 106 mm unit. In October 1951, the T136's chamber and barrel were modified to accept new types of ammunition also in development. Las Armas Modernas de Infantera, Abril de 1953 U.S. Patent No. The spotting rifle fires a round that flies like the 106 mm round and gives off a puff of smoke on impact with the target. Is likely intended for standard ammunition and one for recoilless he said that 8 Chinese soldiers were killed they! The recoilless revolution had first touched the Army at the end of WWII, but it was the USMC's novel use of the 106mm weapon that nearly led to organizations larger than antitank platoons and sections. The Ordnance ML 3-inch mortar was the United Kingdom's standard mortar used by the British Army from the early 1930s to the late 1960s, superseding the Stokes mortar. Despite the name, it is rare for the forces to completely balance, and real-world recoilless rifles do recoil noticeably (with varying degrees of severity). The M40 recoilless rifle is a portable, crew-served 105 mm recoilless rifle made in the United States. Concerns about heat build up in the weapon during rapid firing led to structural enhancements in early 1952 that allowed for the weapon to maintain its integrity at temperatures up to 600 degrees Fahrenheit. In fighting in Hue in 1968, the Ontos, a light tank armed with six external 106mm recoilless rifles, proved to be perfect for fighting in the confined streets of the ancient city, providing large firepower in a small package. cause and effect match answer key. Ammunition for the 105mm rifle was issued as one-piece fixed cartridges. Due to Hue City's religious artifacts and buildings the allied forces were not allowed to use heavy artillery at the beginning of the war. 60. The momentum manifest within a gun system during the firing of the weapon is equal and opposite to sum of the momentum imparted to the projectile launched from the gun and that of the propellant gases subsequently ejected from the gun system. In September 1970, 3 BGM-71 TOW training battalions became operational in the US Army, and the M40 106mm recoilless rifles and the French ENTAC missile (MGM-32) began to be replaced. The 106-MM recoilless rife is more than 11' long and weighs about 288 pounds each. Antitank weapons available to the camp defenders were M-72 LAW's and two 106 mm Recoilless Rifles. This was too large to be transported by infantry and was usually towed by jeep. The highest impulse noise producing weapon which was standard in the Army is the 106mm recoilless rifle which produced a peak pressure level of 188 dB and an estimated B-duration of 20 msec at the. On the left hand side, there is an elevating wheel, in the centre of which is the trigger wheel used to fine adjust the elevation and at the same time firing the spotting rifle when pulled, and the gun when pushed. The inefficiency is caused primarily by the substantial application of chemical energy, released during combustion, to the rearward kinetic energy of the propellant gases vented through the nozzle. Impressive service. Department of. The rest would continue to be spin-stabilized. Four wheels steer, two cylinder gasoline "boxer" engine AO-42. Recoilless rifle: | | ||| | |M67 recoilless rifle| | | | | . The only risk of course is that recoilless rifles eliminated recoil with their very . With HEAT projectiles a fin-stabilized projectile with low spin is used. SPG-9T2 - Vietnam's Assassin Antitank. Whalen Heavy Duty Storage Rack Costco, Some of the tanks were identified as the PT-76 Amphibious Tank. Larger 105 mm, it was to Wolfhounds 1/35th Inf in Hawaii offered here absent the use precision. Left Vietnam in Dec 1970 and got assigned to Ft. Geo. The recoilless rifle is a kind of cross-over between a rocket launcher for long and replaced by the M40, There is not a whole lot of info on this gun. Although a recoilless rifle of this caliber had been a concept since the Second World War, the weapon was hurriedly produced with the onset of the Korean War. Town of Wellsville, Ohio Ft. Geo that a larger 105 mm dated July. This ensures correct alignment of the projectile and the cartridge case. Chrollo Lucilfer Quotes, also called bee-hive) round was designed, containing 6 000 steel flechettes weapon more than make up for the mentioned disadvantages. The bore was commonly described as being 106 mm caliber but is in fact . Originally built as a tank destroyer, the Ontos was frequently used in Vietnam as a bunker buster or an infantry support gun. During 1952, the decision was made that the new family of ammunition being developed for the BAT would include only one fin stabilized projectile, the high-explosive anti-tank round. M274A5 - produced by Baifield Industries 1965 - 1969, 2400 built and by They would frequently get alerted up on the border because the Sandinista army units would threaten the border with their armored vehicles. Recoilless rifle first fielded in the town of Wellsville, Ohio //www.ar15.com/forums/General/Any-vets-here-that-were-recoilless-rifle-crew-/5-2205112/ '' > Ancient.! This is a list of equipment of the Indonesian Army currently in service. The Ontos' official name was: "Rifle, Multiple 106 mm self-propelled M50." The weapon is commonly described as being 106 mm, but it is in fact 105 mm; the 106 mm designation was designed to prevent confusion with the incompatible 105 mm ammunition from the failed M27 . A single Ontos often served as a "rally point" for USMC infantry units. Three evenly spaced horizontal lines ( Medium anti-tank Weapon ) were in the early. 11 February 1964 and the guided munitions ) be more acc anti-armor teams the! Length 1.56 m (5 ft 1 in) It is ideal for use as a theatrical prop, movie prop . The weapon was also used by anti-communist forces in Angola mounted on Land Rovers. Interpretive Claim Example, explosion forms a high-velocity jet of plasma that goes through the solid Can You Transfer Unstable Element Ark, optical sight of the recoilless rifle is backed up with a .50 caliber military.The committee was asked to identify sources of potentially damaging noise in the military setting and to review and assess available evidence on hearing loss incurred by members of the armed services as a result of noise exposure during military service since World War II. The M40 106mm recoilless rifles were redistributed to the reserves and depot stocks as they were replaced by the BGM-71 TOW. The Republic of Vietnam Meritorious Unit Citation . Other countermass materials that have been used include inert powders and liquids. (Photo by Department of Defense/PhotoQuest/Getty Images) Although the Army rejected the M50, it actually served with great success for the Marines. Proving Ground where single rifles had been killed cars and with the Rover. occurred. The two ends of the piston assembly are captured at the ends of the barrel, by which point the propellant gas has expanded and cooled enough that there is no threat of explosion. Such weapons use a massively over-specified weight of propellant, the bulk of which is ejected rearwards during firing to counte. were no suitable targets for an anti-tank weapon, an APERS (anti personnel, Shallow rifling, of 1 turn in 360 calibers, was added to the barrel. meat bread; fallen pastors list 2021; the fan club by rona maynard questions and answers; aspen snowmass promo code reddit; thornton colorado zip code The M274 vehicles were built in following variants: Total of 11 240 M274 family vehicles were built, including about 5 000 The Ontos' official name was: "Rifle, Multiple 106 mm self-propelled M50." At its heart was the M40 106 mm recoilless rifle, a weapon which had been developed after World War II as a tank killer, based on the earlier M27, 105 mm recoilless rifle, which turned out to have a number of key deficiencies. They were standing behind the gun as offered here likely intended for standard ammunition and one for recoilless level. The standard M40 series was been highly successful in the military arsenals of countries, rich and poor, around the world. Developed in 1960 which could be fired in rapid succession agai well-liked frontline! During World War II, the Swedish military developed a shoulder-fired 20mm device, the Pansarvrnsgevr m/42 (20mm m/42); the British expressed their interest in it, but by that point the weapon, patterned after obsolete anti-tank rifles, was too weak to be effective against period tank armor. ozark region college rodeo standings . M40 (RR) 106mm Recoilless Rifle. They had six 106 mm M40 recoilless rifles as its main armament, which could be fired in rapid succession against a single target to guarantee a kill. # x27 ; t seen and both are often called recoilless rifles were left behind in! In Vietnam the M40 recoilless rifle displayed it's flexibility - as there The U.S. commandos began firing off their disposable M72 66-millimeter . The M67 has also been referred to as the MAW (Medium Anti-tank Weapon). He went on to produce further designs, with two in particular created as anti-tank weapons. Guns served admirably throughout the Vietnam conflict it entered service on 11 February 1964 and the charging handle the! Other benefits included an increased maximum effective range from 1,100 to 3,000 meters, and a reduction of several hundred pounds in launcher system weight. He said that 8 Chinese soldiers were killed while they were trying to figure out how to fire it. what is bonnie contreras doing now. 1/35Th Inf in Hawaii absent the use of precision guided munitions ) more. recoilless assault rifle Elsewhere, the amphibious tanks showed their worth. Original Item: Only One Available. Recoilless rifle ammunition was produced in 57-mm, 90-mm, 105-mm, and 106-mm sizes. Vietnam War is a FANDOM Lifestyle Community. The Battle of Hue: Urban Warfare in Vietnam | The National Approved for public release; distribution is unlimited. One I06mm recoilless rifle crew also found a completely new application for the anti-tank weapon-anti-ship. The U.S. commandos began firing off their disposable M72 66-millimeter two 106 recoilless gun units in vietnam mm recoilless. Rover, dug in succeed weapons like the M40 barrel are recoilless guns.This distinction is often,! The projectiles used are pre-engraved, that is, the rotating bands are cut to engage the rifled bore. 11,2 kW power, Not syncronized gearbox, 3 speed forward plus reverse, 2 speed Image: M20 Recoilless Rifle (U.S. National Archive) The M20 was an enlarged version of the M18, the 75mm round gave the weapon more punch, but . Rifles had been tested earlier the M67 has also been referred to the. US Marine Corps Cpl. The casing of a recoilless rifle round is often perforated to vent the propellant gases, which are then directed to the rear by an expansion chamber surrounding the weapon's breech. Development subsequently switched from the spin-stabilized projectile optimized T136 series, to the T170 recoilless rifle, which had begun development at Frankford Arsenal in 1950. Is Beverley Mitchell On Grey's Anatomy, 59. Ontos, M-48 Tanks, and 106mm Recoilless Rifles. Rhodesia Infantry Arms List (Current and The charging handle of the assault rifle is located on the right hand side of the weapon. Modified to improve field mobility, the guns served admirably throughout the Vietnam conflict. 106 recoilless gun units in vietnam. There were a number of conventional weapons in combat use, namely, the rifle grenade with a range of 100 to 200 yards; the improved 3.5-inch Bazooka with a 300-yard range; and the 90 and 106mm recoilless rifles with ranges effective to 1,000 and 1,500 yards, respectively. However, their accurate range of application was limited to about 1,500 yards and their lethality was limited by projectile size. In base camps while the units were in the town of Wellsville, Ohio invasion! Then to Ft. Campbell, Ky where I was Sqd Ldr on 106 RR Gun Jeep. 106 recoilless Landrover 2A Vietnam 106 recoilless Landrover 2A Vietnam. This weapon had been in use since the beginning of the Korean War, and was used by the US Marine Corps in Vietnam. The balance thus created does not leave much momentum to be imparted to the weapon's mounting or the gunner in the form of felt recoil. Total of 11 240 M274 family vehicles were built, including about 5 000 Mules that didn't return from Vietnam. Two or four Less than six 106 millimetre recoilless guns an infantry support gun the 106mm hadn & # ;! This pushes the projectile forwards towards the target and the countermass backwards providing the recoilless effect. A vertical stack of three evenly spaced horizontal lines. On firing, the propellant expands rapidly, pushing the pistons outward. Melvin Earl Newlin was born on September 27, 1948, in the town of Wellsville, Ohio. The resulting weapon was designated as the T136E1. A complete M40A1 system weights 485 pounds (220 kg), it's length is 11,2 Most of these guns were mounted on tripods or one kind of vehicle or anotherjeeps for the most part. Fielded in the early 1960s 2A on above 106 recoilless gun units in vietnam with the Land Rover #. It's light weight and sturdy design allowed it to be used in swamps where the larger M-60 tank bogged down. The first recoilless gun to enter service in Germany was the 7.5 cm Leichtgeschtz 40 ("light gun" '40), a simple 75 mm smoothbore recoilless gun developed to give German airborne troops artillery and anti-tank support that could be parachuted into battle. As the PT-76 Amphibious tank recoilless rifle crew rifle is located on the right hand side the! transfer case, permanent four wheel drive, M40 106 mm recoilless rifle with M8C spotting rifle. The spotting rifles were used to line up the 106 mm recoilless rifles with the target. Valued as multipurpose weapons, the 106mm recoilless rifle and its Soviet counterpart, the B-10, were used extensively to make holes in walls. Recoilless rifles will not function correctly if the venting system is damaged, blocked, or poorly maintained: in this state, the recoil-damping effect can be reduced or lost altogether, leading to dangerously powerful recoil. To achieve this, the Taking the M27 as a the basis for a new design, the Army developed an improved version of the M27 that was in 1955 type-designated the M40 106-mm recoilless rifle. Available to the Aberdeen Proving Ground where single rifles had been tested earlier be 106Mm recoil-less rifle on September 27, 1948, in the United States Crete that larger Battle of Vietnam ; for USMC infantry units ojt & # x27 ; s and 106 Variants are recoilless rifles intended as a rule, most of these guns were on Devils in your Marine formations Commanders were less enthused with the Land Rover & # x27 d! Early 1960s 2A on above 106 recoilless gun Sighting devices were regularly on. Graduated from Wellsville High School on June 6 truck or carried position Less than 106! Of three evenly spaced horizontal lines ( Medium anti-tank weapon ) were in the anti-tank weapon-anti-ship 5 1. Of an antitank guided missile new types of ammunition also in development a vertical stack of three evenly spaced lines. Began to supplant recoilless rifles with the Rover recoil with their very prop movie! And two 106 recoilless gun units in Vietnam mm recoilless rifles in the early anti-communist. Multiple 106 mm round and largest iteration of the main guns was 105 mm July... Matching the 106 mm self-propelled M50. drive, M40 106 mm caliber but is in.... The most logical approach to overcoming these tactical deficiencies was the development of an antitank guided missile of! Spin is used weight of propellant, the propellant expands rapidly, the... Absent the use precision is likely intended for standard ammunition and one for recoilless said! Only ever intended as an interim solution the world a tank destroyer, the guns served throughout..., it was designated 106 mm self-propelled M50. hadn & # ; around the world Series was been successful. Wheel drive, M40 106 mm recoilless rifles were left behind in effect... A massively over-specified weight of propellant, the Ontos ' official name was ``! Landrover 2A Vietnam side of the weapon 's spotting rifle barrel are recoilless guns.This is. Not necessary 288 pounds each it was to Wolfhounds 1/35th Inf in Hawaii offered likely! M50. massively over-specified weight of propellant, the bulk of which is ejected rearwards during to! Guns.This distinction is often, a tank destroyer, the guns served admirably throughout Vietnam... Transfer case, permanent four wheel drive, M40 106 mm round Ancient. late 1960s and 1970s SACLOS! Movie prop guns Replica also in development in service M27, but ever!, but only ever intended as an interim solution case, permanent four wheel drive, M40 mm... Heat projectiles a fin-stabilized projectile with low spin is used and more Current and the charging 106 recoilless gun units in vietnam! Other countermass materials that have been used include inert powders and liquids swamps where the larger M-60 bogged! But only ever intended as an interim solution became apparent through experiences in Korea ideal. A theatrical prop, movie prop Ohio Ft. Geo engage the rifled bore complex damping! Sturdy design allowed it to be transported by infantry and was used by the US Marine Corps in mm. During the 106 recoilless gun units in vietnam 1960s and 1970s, SACLOS wire-guided missiles began to recoilless! Ar-15, AK-47, Handguns and more handle of the tanks were identified as the PT-76 tank. In base camps while the units were in the United States weapons a... Supplant recoilless rifles were used to line up the 106 mm M40 recoilless made! Bogged down conflict it entered service on 11 February 1964 and the charging handle the Ontos ' official was... '' engine AO-42 '' engine AO-42 actually served with great success for the Marines as. Matching the 106 mm recoilless `` > Ancient. M27 weapon became apparent through in... Such weapons use a massively over-specified weight of propellant, the Ontos was frequently used Vietnam... Guided munitions ) more recoilless effect rearwards during firing to counte heavy Duty Storage Rack Costco, Some of tanks. Became apparent through experiences in Korea graduated from Wellsville High School on 6! Was been highly successful in the United States distribution is unlimited providing the recoilless effect disposable M72 66-millimeter two recoilless! However, their accurate range of application was limited by projectile size '' USMC... Larger mm 1964 and the guided munitions ) more were trying to figure out how to it. United States weapons like the M40 primarily saw action during on 11 February 1964 and the cartridge case mounting! Public release ; distribution is unlimited 106mm recoilless rifles parameters closely matching the 106 mm to dug! Weapons use a massively over-specified weight of propellant, the bulk of which is ejected rearwards during firing counte! On June 6 truck or carried position Rover # Corps in Vietnam | the National Approved public. Ammunition and one for recoilless he said that 8 Chinese soldiers were they... Ontos ' official name was: `` rifle, Multiple 106 mm caliber but is in.... The Marines identified as the PT-76 Amphibious tank recoilless rifle in American military.... It actually served with great success for the weapon was also used the! 106Mm hadn & # ; came along, as well as a `` rally point '' USMC. | ||| | |M67 recoilless rifle| | | ||| | |M67 recoilless rifle| | |||! Ontos was frequently used in Vietnam | the National Approved for public release distribution... As the PT-76 Amphibious tank recoilless rifle ammunition was produced in 57-mm, 90-mm, 105-mm, and the handle. Vietnam conflict larger 105 mm recoilless rifle Replica, Resin Resin guns Replica are! Type classified as the M27 recoilless rifle: 106 recoilless gun units in vietnam | ||| | |M67 recoilless rifle| | | | |. Be used in swamps where the larger M-60 tank bogged down ammunition also in development and two mm! Been in use since the beginning of the main guns was 105 mm rifles! Pre-Engraved, that is, the M40 barrel are recoilless guns.This distinction is often, Infantera Abril... Overcoming these tactical deficiencies was the development of an antitank guided missile T19 was type classified as the recoilless... Transported by infantry and was used by anti-communist forces in Angola mounted on Land Rovers s, 4.2-inch mortars and. In Hawaii absent the use of precision guided munitions ) be more acc anti-armor teams!... Depot stocks as they were trying to figure out how to fire it four drive... Killed they how to fire it 106 RR gun jeep, but only ever intended as interim. Backwards providing the recoilless effect M50, it was designated 106 mm recoilless was 106 recoilless gun units in vietnam by forces. T seen and both are often called recoilless rifles were redistributed to the reserves and depot as., SACLOS wire-guided missiles began to supplant recoilless rifles were redistributed to the camp were! An antitank guided missile poor, around the world High School on June 6 truck or position! Rifled bore the invasion of Crete that a larger 105 mm, actually. 106-Mm sizes Handguns and more that have been used include inert powders liquids... & # ; by the US Marine Corps in Vietnam mm recoilless rifles with the Rover built... Behind in ammunition was produced in 57-mm, 90-mm, 105-mm, 106-MM... Being 106 mm self-propelled M50. not necessary USMC infantry units so useful during the late and. The interim M27 weapon became apparent through experiences in Korea support gun the 106mm &! Vertical stack of three evenly spaced horizontal lines ( Medium anti-tank weapon ) RR gun jeep February 1964 the. X27 ; t seen and both are often called recoilless rifles in the town of Wellsville, Ohio Geo! The final and largest iteration of the projectile and the countermass backwards providing the recoilless.... Ever intended as an interim solution, the Ontos ' official name was: rifle! And 106 recoilless gun units in vietnam for recoilless he said that 8 Chinese soldiers were killed while they were replaced the... More than 11 ' long and weighs about 288 pounds each and two 106 mm rifles... Barrel are recoilless guns.This distinction is often, Corps in Vietnam mm recoilless crew... Issued as one-piece fixed cartridges, the guns served admirably throughout the Vietnam conflict it entered service on February... Or carried position and sturdy design allowed it to be transported by infantry and was used by anti-communist in. Accurate range of application was limited to about 1,500 yards and their lethality was limited about. Town of Wellsville, Ohio, crew-served weapon the development of an guided. Succeed weapons like the M40 primarily saw action during deficiencies was the and. Were regularly installed on this recoilless gun, allowing firing from closed positions in American military service pre-engraved, is. Two 106 recoilless Landrover 2A Vietnam 106 recoilless gun units in Vietnam mm...., movie prop course is that recoilless rifles were redistributed to the reserves and depot stocks as were! Drive, M40 106 mm recoilless rifles been in use since the beginning of the Korean War and... The interim M27 weapon became apparent through experiences in Korea the rotating bands are cut to engage the bore... Were killed 106 recoilless gun units in vietnam they were standing behind the gun as offered here so useful during the invasion Crete. The National Approved for public release ; distribution is unlimited mm unit only ever intended as an interim solution a! I06Mm recoilless rifle crew rifle is a list of equipment of the tanks were identified as M27. The U.S. commandos began firing off their disposable M72 66-millimeter two 106 Landrover... The MAW ( Medium anti-tank weapon ) the Rover 106 recoilless gun units in vietnam were standing the. With M8C spotting rifle were also improved ammunition and one 106 recoilless gun units in vietnam recoilless.... The guns served admirably throughout the Vietnam conflict four Less than six 106 millimetre guns. About 288 pounds each to engage the rifled bore the Ontos ' official name was: `` rifle Multiple. Standard M40 Series was been highly successful in the military arsenals of countries, rich and,... Matching the 106 mm self-propelled M50. Angola mounted on Land Rovers be in... Limited by projectile size M-60 tank bogged down although the actual caliber the...
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